On the lessons of chess. Sport could apply here too. Any competitive activity really…

Rick Rubin: As you were progressing, as things were going good, as you were rising in whatever ranks there were, do you remember a big loss?

Tyler Cowen: Well, what I remember most, is I learned pretty early on. This was very important for me. Like first I learned I could win. Beat like grown adults. But more importantly I learned that I could lose. That there were people out there who were just better than I was. And even if sometimes I’d hold even because I had good work habits or I didn’t take drugs or drink, like they were just better. And a lot of smart young people don’t learn that until much later, and that they’re not sort of built to adjust for it. And I feel I was built to adjust for that very early on. So I always knew there would be smarter people than me out there, and to do well I would have to kind of have rituals and routines, where I would have a lot of compound learning, and just keep on doing those for many decades. And that I figured out when I was like twelve, thirteen because of chess. And that was just invaluable for me.

Excellent throughout. One of the best podcasts I’ve ever listened to. The tone of voice. The steady pace. Rick Rubin channeling his inner Tyler Cowen with ping-ping-ping questions. The range of topics, getting into Tyler’s childhood, his fascination with music, chess, global population, Rick asked questions of Tyler that haven’t been asked before. Wonderful.

Pair with the D.J. Tyler Cowen bonus episode.