From the The Joe Walker Podcast (formerly Jolly Swagman).

Katalin shares insightful ways to deal with life’s setbacks. Listen to the entire conversation here:

WALKER: Selye. Thank you. And in high school you read a book about stress by Hans Selye. Can you tell me how that influenced your thinking? Why was it so impactful?

KARIKÓ: Indeed, we actually wrote a letter to him. And he responded and we got so excited. Because he was born in Hungary, his book about stress was translated to Hungarian, and so in the ’60s, you could read his book.

We discussed it in biology class. So we did understand that stress can kill you — but only how you perceive it. So you have to learn to handle the stress.

And what he said also in his book was that without stress life is meaningless. You wouldn’t get up this morning if you don’t have this anticipation, excitement, that we will talk today.

So you need that kind of happiness… This is also stress, but it is a good stress… And how you would, when you are kicked out of your job, see the goodness of it.

But you have to learn, and it is a practice. So we practise and we talk in the school about how we can focus on things that we can do. That’s the problem with people: they focus things that they cannot change. It was important that the conversation has to be about what I can do, not blaming others. And so it was very helpful.

WALKER: Without reading that book, would you have been as good at handling stress? I feel like your personality is very optimistic, naturally.

KARIKÓ: Yeah. I wouldn’t be here, I wouldn’t be talking with you.

WALKER: Really?

KARIKÓ: I would not reach that, because it was so critical. What I can see, even today, is that people are comparing themselves to the others immediately. Don’t do that! Don’t worry about that other person who works less and gets promoted and gets hired. You cannot change that. But the people paying attention to this, they get distracted and they are not focusing what they can change — doing the research. And they are blaming. They blame their children, their husband, wife, neighbours, somebody. And then you cannot change those people. They wish that they would do this and that. No. You have to always end every conversation in your mind with “What can I do?” So that’s very helpful.

And if people would learn this, they would live a much better life. For example, the grudge that people have against somebody. So many people ask how I feel now that I can tell those people who were not nice to me. I mean, I thank people who were not nice to me, because without them, I wouldn’t be here. Because hardship and those things are forming your personality. Much better than if somebody prepared yours, and you just have to walk an easy way.

So if you struggle you learn many things. Also, people who were not nice to me made me work harder with what I have. And then that’s how you have to process. So even in… Actually in school — in high school we are talking about reading this book —, my high school teacher told me — he didn’t like me — and he told me after I graduated to the highest mark, he said that he knows somebody at the university and he will make sure that I will not be accepted.

At first you could see that, “Oh, this is mean and bad news.” But if you say, “Okay. How do I perceive it?” That’s important. “I perceive that I have to work harder, so I have to be the number one. So no question about that. I will be accepted.” If he says: “I will arrange that you will be accepted”, I sit back and work less hard. So you have to see it as: “Okay, he made me work harder.” And then you also learn, every time, you learn that not everybody’s rooting for me. And that was your lesson of the life there — so not everybody wants you to succeed. And you have to think about that. You have to practise, to think: “Okay, what did I learn from it?” Because even the meanest person to tell you anything, you learn: “I won’t do that, I won’t say that to anybody else because it’s hurtful.” So I learn, and then you move on. That’s the simple philosophy. I don’t know, maybe there is such philosophy that exists. But if you live your life then you are so much happier.